Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/17/1994 03:00 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
February 17, 1994
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis
Rep. Irene Nicholia
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 299: "An Act relating to education programs on
consumption of alcohol and to revocation of a
driver's license for illegal consumption of
alcohol; and providing for an effective date."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
*HB 417: "An Act relating to the possession of deadly
weapons within the grounds of or on the parking
lot of preschools, elementary, junior high, and
secondary schools; and relating to school lockers
and other containers provided in a public or
private school by the school or the school
district."
HEARD AND HELD
*HB 418: "An Act extending the termination fate of the
Board of Parole; and providing for and effective
date."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
SAM RUSSELL, Student
C/O Juneau/Douglas High School
10014 Crazy Horse Dr.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 463-1900
Position Statement: Testified in support of CSHB 299
MARGOT KNUTH
Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
Phone: (907) 465-4049
Position Statement: Answered legal questions on CSHB 299
KAI MORRISON, Student
Juneau/Douglas High School
10014 Crazy Horse Dr.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 463-1900
Position Statement: Testified in support of CSHB 299
JUANITA HENSLEY
Chief of Driver Services
Division of Motor Vehicles
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 20020
Juneau, Alaska 99802-0020
Phone: (907) 225-4335
Position Statement: Answered questions on CSHB 299
ALISHA HECK, Student
Juneau/Douglas High School
10014 Crazy Horse Dr.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 463-1900
Position Statement: Testified in support of CSHB 299
JESSE GEMMELL, Student
Juneau/Douglas High School
10014 Crazy Horse Dr.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 463-1900
Position Statement: Testified in support of CSHB 299
VERNON MARSHALL, Executive Director
National Education Association/Alaska
114 Second St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 586-3090
Position Statement: Testified in support of CSHB 299
JAIME MARKS, Representative
National Council on Alcoholism/Juneau
211 4th St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 463-3755
Position Statement: Testified in support of CSHB 299
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Attorney
Legislative Legal Counsel
Legislative Affairs Agency
130 Seward St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 465-2450
Position Statement: Answered legal questions on CSHB 417
BILL CRAIG, Interim President
Alaska Native Blind
613 Degroff St.
Sitka, Alaska 99835
Phone: (907) 747-5917
Position Statement: Asked questions on CSHB 417
NANNETTE GAY, Intern
Rep. Bettye Davis
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 465-3875
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 418
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 299
SHORT TITLE: DRIVER'S LIC REVOCATION;ALCOHOL/DRUGS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) TOOHEY,Bunde,Mulder
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
05/06/93 1664 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
05/06/93 1664 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/17/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 417
SHORT TITLE: POSSESSION OF FIREARMS IN SCHOOL LOCKERS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/31/94 2205 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/31/94 2205 (H) HES, JUDICIARY
02/17/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 418
SHORT TITLE: EXTEND BOARD OF PAROLE
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) B.DAVIS
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/31/94 2205 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/31/94 2205 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/17/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-23, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:05 p.m.,
indicated that there was not a quorum present, and said roll
would be taken further along into the meeting. He announced
the calendar and brought CSHB 299 to the table.
CSHB 299: "An Act relating to revocation of a driver's
license for illegal possession or use of a controlled
substance or illegal possession or consumption of alcohol;
and providing for an effective date."
Number 044
REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY, Prime Sponsor of HB 299, stated that a
proposed committee substitute (CS) had been drafted and
requested to have the CS adopted as a working draft. She
indicated there was not a quorum present.
REP. TOOHEY stated that recent data from the National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration indicates the alcohol
fatality rate for high school students is nearly twice as
high than drivers 25 years of age and older. She further
stated that the rate is nearly three times as high for 18-20
year olds. She stressed that the consumption of alcohol or
drugs can severely impair the ability of the driver to drive
responsibly. She said that driving is a privilege and that
loss of the privilege is a powerful deterrent to drugs or
alcohol use or possession. She felt legislation would
provide a strong incentive for children to say no. She also
said the proposal would positively reinforce those youths
who are alcohol and drug free by maintaining their
eligibility. She said the proposed legislation is known as
"use it/lose it."
REP. TOOHEY asserted that a minor who is old enough to have
a permit or license would lose that privilege if the minor
possessed, used, or consumed a controlled substance or
alcohol. She said the proposal is supported by the
Department of Public Safety (DPS), the Alaska Medical
Association, the Alaska Council on Prevention of Alcohol and
Drug Abuse, Alaskans for Drug Free Youths, and the Alaska
Association of the Chief of Police.
REP. TOOHEY explained that there is a cost to DPS, but the
revenues generated by the implementation of the proposal
would be offset and a positive revenue stream is
anticipated. She also said that the program would enable
the state to access additional federal funds.
REP. TOOHEY said that the Department of Law (DOL) said that
there would be a zero fiscal note. She maintained that if
the proposal achieves its intention, the savings of lives
and the savings of alcohol and drug treatment costs could be
tremendous.
Number 174
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that there were witnesses present from
Juneau/Douglas High School and asked for the first witness.
Number 199
SAM RUSSELL, Student, Juneau/Douglas High School, testified
in support of CSHB 299. He stated that the proposal was a
very good idea. He did say, however, that the wording of
the proposal is unclear and would leave a lot to the
judgement of a police officer. He then asked what the
definition of probable cause is.
Number 233
MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law,
answered legal questions on CSHB 299. She stated that
probable cause is a recognized legal standard that requires
that a police officer have evidence available that
indicates, more likely than not, that the violation has
occurred. The violation would be subject to review by the
courts, who would use the standard and substitute their own
judgement for the police officers, and then agree or
disagree that there was probable cause.
Number 260
CHAIR BUNDE commented that if a police officer makes a
judgement based on probable cause that is incorrect, the
case would be thrown out of court.
MS. KNUTH agreed.
SAM RUSSELL indicated that the words "possessed, used, and
consumed" are used in the past tense and questioned what
time frame was indicated. He also asked, if a neighbor was
to call the police and report the suspicion of minors
consuming alcohol in the house across the street, would that
be enough evidence of probable cause for a police officer to
make an arrest.
Number 322
CHAIR BUNDE noted for the record that at 3:14 p.m. a quorum
was present and indicated that Reps. Toohey, Brice,
Nicholia, Bettye Davis, Gary Davis and himself (Rep. Bunde)
were present.
CHAIR BUNDE, for clarification, asked if the terms being
discussed were well defined by law.
Number 345
MS. KNUTH said yes, and further stated that the
administrative revocation statute as proposed begins: "If a
peace officer has probable cause based on personal
observation..." She said that line requires the officer to
actually observe enough to believe the offense has been
committed. To only see suspicious conduct would not be
enough.
MS. KNUTH stated that the odor of alcohol on a juvenile's
breath would be enough evidence for probable cause. She
said the requirement of personal observation also gives a
"time back" time frame. She explained that usually no more
than a certain amount of hours could pass after the offense
is committed and the time frame would not go back weeks or
months or years.
Number 393
CHAIR BUNDE said the proposal was a protective measure and
it was not his intention that any legal rights be taken
away. He further stated that youths should have the same
legal rights as adults.
Number 422
REP. G. DAVIS made a motion to adopt the CS for HB 299 as a
working draft.
Number 425
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objection, stated that CSHB 299 had
been adopted as the working draft.
Number 437
SAM RUSSELL reiterated his support for CSHB 299.
Number 462
KAI MORRISON, Student, Juneau/Douglas High School, testified
in support of CSHB 299. He stated that he was somewhat
unclear as to the statutes involved in the proposal.
CHAIR BUNDE maintained that the statutes would be made
available to the students the following day.
KAI MORRISON asked, if a minor does not have a license and
is found to be in possession of drugs or alcohol, would the
right to obtain a license be withheld for the same period as
those minors who do have a license?
Number 517
JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief, Driver Services, Division of Motor
Vehicles, Department of Public Safety, answered questions on
CSHB 299. She stated that driving is a privilege in the
state Alaska; it is not a right. It is an earned privilege
obtained by obeying the laws of the state. She stated that
if a minor does not have a license, the privilege to obtain
a license is revoked for the same period of time as a person
who has a license. She explained that if an individual is
charged with minor consuming, and the police officer had
probable cause, the license would be revoked through the
administrative process. She said the first offense lasts
for 90 days from the date that the officer made the
determination, or from the date prescribed by law, seven
days from the initial charge.
Number 548
KAI MORRISON asked if an administrative hearing must be held
in the same town that the violation occurred in.
Number 559
MS. HENSLEY stated that the administrative hearing could be
conducted over the phone.
Number 593
CHAIR BUNDE asked if Kai Morrison was in support or
opposition of CSHB 299.
Number 596
KAI MORRISON said he supports CSHB 299.
Number 608
ALISHA HECK, Student, Juneau/Douglas High School, testified
in support of CSHB 299. She asked how minors, whose parents
will not let their children obtain permits or licenses,
would be affected by the proposal. She explained that there
would be nothing to take away if the minor was not going to
be allowed to obtain a permit or a license.
Number 550
MS. HENSLEY said if an administrative hearing is not
requested, the privilege to drive or obtain a license would
be revoked, effective the eighth day following the initial
charge. She said that it would not start the day a person
turns eighteen years of age.
Number 674
ALISHA HECK stated that there would be nothing to take away
in that time period if the parents did not allow them to
obtain a permit or license.
Number 683
MS. HENSLEY said the proposal would prevent the minor from
obtaining a driver's license, and if they had a driver's
license, it would be revoked.
Number 689
CHAIR BUNDE interjected that in the event the parents change
their minds, the proposal would affect the minor.
Number 696
REP. TOOHEY asked how the proposal would apply to the minor
who then turns 18 years of age.
Number 705
MS. HENSLEY replied that there is a seven day grace period
from the initial notice when the officer gave the minor the
notice (called a notice in order of revocation). The
revocation would actually start on the eighth day, unless
the minor requests an administrative hearing. She further
stated that if a minor comes in to apply on their 18
birthday, the period of revocation would be over.
Number 729
CHAIR BUNDE interjected that the violation does not remain
in suspended animation.
Number 737
ALISHA HECK reiterated that nothing would be taken away if
the parents do not allow the children to obtain a permit or
license, therefore there is no lesson taught.
Number 747
CHAIR BUNDE stated that the same circumstance applies to the
minor who is too young to acquire a permit. He agreed that
the legislation cannot take anything away in those
circumstances, but said circumstance often change quickly.
Number 759
ALISHA HECK indicated under Section 1, line 3, it specifies
youthful drivers or teen drivers and felt that the section
could apply to anyone driving under the influence. She said
if the words youthful and teenager were deleted, the
statement still would hold true.
Number 781
CHAIR BUNDE commented that motor vehicle safety statistics
indicate that young people are killed more often in motor
vehicle accidents, more so than "drunk old people."
Number 786
ALISHA HECK maintained that the language could be removed
because the concept did not apply only to youths.
Number 789
CHAIR BUNDE explained that the focus of the legislation
addresses teenage drivers. He felt that the proposal was
not intended to be prejudiced against teenagers.
REP. TOOHEY stated that the safety administration indicates
that among high school aged drivers, the alcohol fatality
rate is nearly twice as high as for that of 25 year old
drivers. She said the proposal specifically addresses
youthful drinking.
Number 816
ALISHA HECK said she supported CSHB 299 but felt the wording
could be more clear.
Number 822
REP. G. DAVIS commented that most parents who already deny
their children the privilege of obtaining a permit or
license would probably impose some type of further
restrictions should their children be charged with an
alcohol or drug related offense.
Number 845
REP. BRICE asked if the revocation takes place
automatically.
Number 853
MS. HENSLEY stated that the revocation would take place
automatically on the eighth day following the initial
charge, unless the minor requests an administrative review.
Number 861
REP. BRICE asked what the offense would be for individuals
between 18 and 21 years of age.
Number 874
MS. HENSLEY said the issue is addressed within CSHB 299.
She said if a person is in need of a driver's license to
earn a livelihood, they can request, through the Department
of Public Safety, a limited work license. She referred to
the provision on page 3, lines 16-18.
Number 899
JESSE GEMMELL, Student, Juneau/Douglas High School,
testified in support of CSHB 299. She asked why the seven
day grace period is provided in the proposal.
Number 908
MS. HENSLEY said the provision allows the minor to follow
their due process rights. She stated that the same
provision is included in the Driving While Under the
Influence (DWI) statute.
Number 939
CHAIR BUNDE asked Jesse Gammell in what capacity she
represents Juneau/Douglas High School.
Number 940
JESSE GEMMELL answered that she is a member of the Natural
Helpers group.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Jesse Gemmell if she was in support or
opposition to CSHB 299.
Number 947
JESSE GEMMELL replied that she was in support of CSHB 299.
Number 955
VERNON MARSHALL, Executive Director, National Education
Association/Alaska, testified in support of CSHB 299. He
expressed concern that if a child is helping to support the
family unit and that child's license is revoked, the impact
may be extreme on the entire family. He said it was his
hope that a hearing officer would take that into
consideration when reviewing the case.
Number 986
MS. HENSLEY said that the officer can take that into
consideration.
Number 994
MR. MARSHALL stated another concern as being the use of
education along with revocation. He noticed that in AS
28.15.201 there is reference to enrollment and compliance
with alcohol treatment programs when appropriate. He
encouraged the committee to consider making some form of
treatment a provision in the proposal. He also indicated
that the CS did not contain the original provision of a
continuing education program. He assumed that the programs
are already being done and that is why it is not in the CS.
If indeed the programs were not available, Mr. Marshall
strongly urged the committee to make that a provision in the
CS. He felt it would help families and prevent the
possibility of repeat offenders in the future.
Number 030
REP. TOOHEY indicated that on page 2, line 1, was a
provision that would allow schools to conduct educational
programs to teach youths about the dangers of drinking or
using controlled substances and driving.
Number 036
REP. BRICE said, to his understanding, what was read would
not have power of statute as it would in the findings of the
legislation. He asked Rep. Toohey if she would be amenable
to making a reference to that in part of the administrative
revocation.
Number 046
REP. TOOHEY did not know the answer.
Number 053
CHAIR BUNDE clarified by saying part of the penalty would be
to attend some type of alcohol counselling.
Number 056
MS. HENSLEY said that issue could be provided for in the
bill. She said that any time a license is revoked for
drinking and driving, the individual must show evidence of
completion of an alcohol treatment program.
Number 068
CHAIR BUNDE asked if the expense of the program would be the
responsibility of the driver.
Number 071
MS. HENSLEY answered yes.
Number 072
REP. TOOHEY said she could support that provision if most
treatment did not cost $1000 per day. She said that
provision could kill the bill. She felt the wording should
urge the joining of a twelve step program, such as
Alcoholics Anonymous or Alateen, which cost nothing to
attend.
Number 086
MS. HENSLEY stated there is a program through the Alcohol
Safety Action program and other programs that are certified
through the Division of Motor Vehicles that are eight hour
alcohol information schools. She said the average cost is
between $20.00 and $40.00.
Number 102
CHAIR BUNDE said there is a difference between residential
commitment and alcohol awareness programs. He suggested
that Rep. Toohey craft an amendment while further testimony
is taken.
Number 117
KAI MORRISON stated that his school already has a health
program and questioned if that program would be considered
an alcohol awareness program as specified in CSHB 299.
Number 137
CHAIR BUNDE said it was his understanding that those types
of classes would be included in the purview of the
legislation.
TAPE 94-23, SIDE B
Number 000
JAIME MARKS, Representative, National Council on
Alcoholism/Juneau, testified in support of CSHB 299. He
also supported mandatory education along with revocation.
Number 027
SAM RUSSELL stated that his school currently has a Drug
Abuse Resistance Education (DARE) program and asked if it
would qualify under the guidelines in the proposal.
CHAIR BUNDE said it was his feeling that the decision would
be made by the administrative hearing officer as to what
programs qualify.
REP. BRICE suggested that perhaps some guidance be given
within the amendment.
Number 076
CHAIR BUNDE stated that the language should be fairly broad
as the DARE program may be cut next year.
Number 080
MS. HENSLEY stated that the DARE program can be certified
through the Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV). She explained
that once the program is certified, it is added to the list
of available programs.
Number 106
MS. HENSLEY stated that DPS supports the CS for HB 299. She
felt that CSHB 299 would save lives of youths and future
leaders by reducing the number of injuries and fatal
accidents. According to the National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration, she said, drivers between 16 and 20 years
old comprised 7.4% of the nation's population in 1991 and
were involved in 15.4% of fatal motor vehicle accidents.
She said that 6630 youths between ages 15 through 20 died in
motor vehicle accidents. She further stated that in
addition to alcohol consumption, other high risk factors are
speeding and inadequate use of seatbelts. She felt the
revocation of a driver's license would serve as a deterrent
to consuming or being in possession of illegal substances.
MS. HENSLEY stated that there would be a fiscal cost, but
that the costs would be offset by revenues taken in by the
state. She said the Division of Family and Youth Services
(DFYS) reported that 1200 youths between the ages of 14 and
17 are referred to their agency annually by police
authorities for alcohol and drug offenses. She said that
approximately 1300 persons between 18 and 20 were arrested
and charged with drug and alcohol offenses in 1992. She
projected the revocation of 2500 licenses in the first
operating year. She said, due to the process of revocations
and process of due process, the DMV would request one full
time driver improvement hearing officer and two full time
motor vehicle representatives. She said the cost would be
$120,100. She also stated that if the license applicant is
under 18 years of age, a parent must sign consent for the
license. She expected 90% of revoked licenses to reinstate,
which would result in $225,000 of revenue. She indicated
that the first year's projected operating cost would be
$188,000, the second year $143,00, and revenues would remain
at $225,000. She said that hopefully CSHB 299 would lower
revocations.
Number 302
ALISHA HECK asked, if a person is over 18 years of age, is
that person considered an adult?
CHAIR BUNDE answered yes, but the person is not old enough
to drink.
ALISHA HECK felt the wording should be better defined.
CHAIR BUNDE stated that he did not have a fiscal note in his
packet.
MS. HENSLEY stated that DPS could not provide the fiscal
note until the CS was adopted. She said she would obtain
the fiscal note immediately after the bill passes out of
committee.
Number 375
MS. HENSLEY reminded Chair Bunde that the bill would be
referred to Judiciary. She then stated that under page 3,
line 18, the sentence, "If a person's driver's license,
permit, or privilege to obtain a license is revoked (under
this section), the person's license or permit may not be
issued or reinstated until the person demonstrates
compliance with the terms of AS 28.15.211 (d)."
Number 467
CHAIR BUNDE asked if the committee was comfortable with the
amendment. After some discussion, Chair Bunde asked for a
motion.
Number 478
REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to adopt the amendment for
CSHB 299.
Number 480
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objections, stated that CSHB 299 as
amended was before the committee. He then asked the
pleasure of the committee.
Number 487
REP. BRICE made a motion to move CSHB 299 as amended out of
committee with anticipated fiscal note to Judiciary, the
next committee of referral.
Number 494
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objections, stated that the bill was
so moved. He then charged the students with the
responsibility of sitting on his side of the table within
the next 20 to 30 years.
Number 552
(NOTE: Rep. Toohey assumed the position of Chair for the
remainder of the meeting.)
CHAIR TOOHEY brought HB 417 to the table.
HB 417 - POSSESSION OF FIREARMS IN SCHOOL LOCKERS
Number 556
REP. BUNDE stated that HB 417 would give schools the
statutory authority to define when lockers should be
searched. He stated that Section 2 provides that a two week
notice or a perpetual notice must be posted if lockers are
going to be searched, thereby the student's right to privacy
is reasonably protected. He then mentioned that San Diego,
California, eliminated school lockers entirely, which lead
to a large reduction in violence on campuses. He said he
had a CS for HB 417 and asked that it be adopted.
Number 629
REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to adopt the CS for HB 417.
Number 631
CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objections, stated that the
CSHB 417 was adopted as the working draft.
Number 640
REP. BRICE stated that it is a greater offense to have a
pair of brass knuckles on your person than it is to have a
gun in school. He wondered if that issue could be addressed
in the bill.
Number 658
REP. BUNDE stated that AS 11.61.220 indicates that it is
currently against the law to have guns in school lockers and
that Section 1 in the CS amends the language to say "deadly
weapon." He then said that deadly weapon means: "Any
firearm or anything designed and capable of causing death or
serious physical injury, including a knife, axe, club, metal
knuckles, or explosives."
Number 701
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Attorney, Legislative Legal Counsel,
Legislative Affairs Agency, answered legal questions
pertaining to CSHB 417. He stated that it is currently a
crime, in the fourth degree, to possess, manufacture,
transport, sell, or transfer metal knuckles, and is a Class
A misdemeanor. He then stated that when there are weapons
involved in a fifth degree crime, possession of a firearm,
or any other deadly weapon that is on school grounds, it
becomes a Class B misdemeanor. He said the definition of
deadly weapon does include metal knuckles. Mr. Luck further
stated that the provision dealing with school grounds was
enacted in 1990. The provision for metal knuckles has been
around since the criminal code was revised.
Number 730
REP. BRICE asked if HB 417 brought both crimes up to the
same level of Class A misdemeanor.
Number 734
MR. LUCKHAUPT answered that AS 11.61.210 would still outlaw
the possession of metal knuckles and make it a Class A
misdemeanor. He then said AS 11.61.220 and the amendment to
that provision would close a loophole pertaining to the
possession of deadly weapons on school grounds. He
explained that when the legislature in 1990 proscribed the
possession of firearms and defensive weapons on school
grounds, it allowed for the possession of deadly weapons.
He said that the problem is that possession of metal
knuckles is a Class A misdemeanor, and the possession of
metal knuckles on school grounds is a Class B misdemeanor.
Number 774
REP. BUNDE stated that the legislation focuses on school
grounds as opposed to someone possessing metal knuckles in a
bar. He said that the previous legislature decided that
people possessing deadly weapons on school grounds were more
likely to be children, therefore warranting a Class B
misdemeanor rather than a Class A.
Number 786
REP. BRICE asked if CSHB 417 would bring the violation up to
a Class A misdemeanor.
Number 787
REP. BUNDE said no. He said it makes metal knuckles equal
to having a gun on school grounds, which is a Class B
misdemeanor.
Number 790
REP. BRICE clarified by saying that the legislation would
make possession of metal knuckles a Class B misdemeanor.
Number 793
REP. BUNDE indicated that knuckles were being made a Class B
misdemeanor on school grounds.
Number 795
REP. BRICE asked if deadly weapons on school grounds could
be brought up to a Class A misdemeanor.
Number 812
REP. BUNDE said that the offenses were chosen to be Class B
misdemeanors because the offenders are more likely to be
children. He then speculated that perhaps it should be a
Class A misdemeanor. He felt that as long as knuckles and
other deadly weapons are equal to the severity of having a
firearm on school grounds, he was comfortable with the
legislation.
Number 837
MS. KNUTH stated on behalf of the administration that the
possession of guns on school grounds should be a felony.
She explained that currently it is such a light offense that
there is no flexibility within the system to deal with the
problem. She said a maximum of 90 days is available for the
criminal offense. She felt that the message to children is
"this is the least of all possible serious offenses, when
it's the most lethal of all possible circumstances." She
said the proposal could be a great vehicle for attacking the
problem.
REP. BUNDE said that he was not opposed to possibly changing
the misdemeanor class and was interested in hearing further
testimony.
Number 930
MR. MARSHALL testified in support of CSHB 417 as amended.
He indicated that page 3, lines 2-3, specifies the grounds
of the parking lot of a private or public school. He asked
the committee to consider adding school sponsored events
under Section 2.
REP. BUNDE referred to lines 4-6 that state, "...without
permission of the chief administrative officer of the school
or district..."
Number 956
MR. MARSHALL suggested that perhaps weapons should be
restricted relative to school sponsored events or in
vicinity to school sponsored events. He asked the committee
to consider a provision regarding searches of school lockers
that would include language that identifies a person (page
3, line 29-30) has reasonable cause to believe deadly
weapons are likely to be found as a result of a locker
search.
Number 002
REP. BUNDE said he would be resistant to that type of
change, indicating that a police officer may be searching
for something other than a deadly weapon, e.g., contraband.
Number 009
MR. MARSHALL suggested that a standard may want to be set so
the administrator would be operating with authority relative
to statute.
TAPE 94-24, SIDE A
Number 000
REP. BRICE indicated what he thought to be a great
difference between reasonable and probable cause.
Number 034
REP. BUNDE asked if Rep. Brice was referring to page 2,
Section C. He stated that nothing in the section limits the
ability of the police officer and other appropriate people
to act in compliance with local, state, and federal law.
Number 058
MS. KNUTH stated that she saw no reason to change Section C
of the proposal. She maintained that the purpose of the
subsection was to clarify that police officers still have
the right to conduct a search.
Number 092
REP. BUNDE clarified the meaning of a school sponsored
event. He related that football games in Anchorage are
played on city property, not on campus, and the concern is
not to have deadly weapons allowed at school sponsored
events. He said there are employees, students, and adults
at school sponsored events, and he felt the scope of the
legislation would not provide for all those people.
Number 126
CHAIR TOOHEY stated that the legislation could not make the
entire world safe.
Number 142
MS. KNUTH asserted that the proposal has identifiable,
physical boundaries.
REP. G. DAVIS said that school regulations within a manual
carry over to school sponsored events. He felt that the
legislation should carry over to school sponsored events.
Number 166
CHAIR TOOHEY, for clarification, asked if the legislation
was focusing on students or bystanders at a school sponsored
event.
Number 174
REP. BUNDE related a scenario of a man driving into Mulcahey
Park in Anchorage to change his tire while a high school
football game is being played. He has a gun rack in his
truck and is anticipating that he will go hunting the next
day. Chair Bunde said in that instance there would be a
boundary problem.
Number 204
REP. BRICE said that there are rivals between various groups
of students in Fairbanks. He expressed concern that youths
are becoming more violent, and perhaps a youth who is found
carrying a concealed weapon should be made to "do time for
the crime." He felt there should be a provision that makes
the offense as serious as being in possession of a concealed
weapon in school.
Number 250
REP. BUNDE said there may be an instance where an adult is
carrying a gun for protection as he cuts through the back of
the stands of a football field on his way to work. He
questioned if the man should be guilty of an offense.
Number 263
REP. BRICE said no.
REP. BUNDE said, according to what Rep. Brice was saying,
the man would be guilty.
Number 269
REP. BRICE asked how his concerns could be legally addressed
within the proposal.
Number 274
MS. KNUTH said that the answer to both scenarios is gun
registration. She said that it's difficult to say to
children on one hand that they can't do something and turn
around and have different rules for adults. She said that a
law can be created for a crime that is age related.
Number 317
REP. BUNDE asked if the verbiage "participating in a school
event" would address the aforementioned concerns. He said
that participating would mean that a person is actively
involved in the event, and there would be a clear boundary.
Number 334
MS. KNUTH said yes it would solve the problem as to who are
the pool of violators. Although, she said, there is still a
problem of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that a person
was actually participating in a school sponsored event.
Number 359
REP. BUNDE referred to page 2, line 4, and said that the
phrase, "or participating in a school sponsored event
without the permission of the chief administrative officer,"
could be added at the end of the sentence.
Number 386
MS. KNUTH said that as a prosecutor, she was comfortable
with that language and she could establish to a jury's
satisfaction whether or not a person was participating at a
school sponsored event or not. She questioned whether there
needed to be a definition of "participating."
Number 403
BILL CRAIG, Interim President, Alaska Native Blind, said
there are laws concerning adults carrying concealed weapons,
and he thought the prior discussion was irrelevant. He said
that adults participating in a school event would already be
covered.
Number 425
MS. KNUTH said that most often that the proposed law would
come into effect when discerning whether it is appropriate
for the weapon to be in a case or in a trunk.
Number 452
REP. BUNDE indicated that the weapon would have to be
unloaded. He said if it is loaded, it would not be allowed
in a trunk or gun case.
Number 465
MR. LUCKHAUPT said the provision for school grounds is not
concerned with whether or not the weapon is concealed. He
said under the provisions of the proposed legislation, a
person who was carrying a deadly or defensive weapon would
be in violation. He was concerned as to "how far
participating is going to go." He maintained that it is
currently legal to carry an unconcealed deadly weapon. He
further explained it would be possible that a person,
carrying an unconcealed weapon, would be hunting or trapping
near a rural school to watch a school sponsored cross
country skiing event.
Number 517
REP. BUNDE asked if "actively participated" would be better
language.
MS. KNUTH asserted that it would not clarify anything. She
said participating is meaningful to her, and that identifies
to her who to prosecute and who not to prosecute.
Number 541
REP. BRICE asked if participating in a school sponsored
event needed to be included. He said if someone is fixing a
flat tire at a school, that person is not participating at a
school event.
Number 560
REP. BUNDE referred to legal counsel and said from his
understanding, Ms. Knuth and Mr. Luckhaupt are comfortable
with the language. He made a motion to amend CSHB 417 to
include the statement: "participating in a school sponsored
event without permission of..." on page 2, line 4, after the
word "secondary school."
Number 586
CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objections, said CSHB 417 as
amended was so moved.
Number 589
REP. BUNDE asked the committee if the offense should be a
felony as opposed to a Class B misdemeanor.
Number 599
MS. KNUTH conveyed to the committee that attorneys who have
worked with juveniles have had the experience that a Class B
misdemeanor does not give them enough flexibility to deal
appropriately with the juvenile. She said that it is not
worthwhile to go through a delinquency proceeding for a
matter that is certainly indicative of a serious problem and
that is only worthy of a Class B misdemeanor. She stated
that her office was surprised to find that it was only a
Class B misdemeanor and said they had assumed it to be a
felony. She said it was a policy decision that needed to be
made by the legislature.
Number 634
REP. BUNDE asked the differences in penalties for
misdemeanors and felony charges and level differences.
Number 640
MS. KNUTH said that if a youth was to go through the
juvenile system, there are not the same implications as
there are with an adult. She said that a judge would not
waive a juvenile to adult status simply for possession of a
gun. She said the most serious of offenses would be waived;
e.g., rape and murder. She further stated that the
penalties associated with making the offense a felony under
the proposed legislation, would still be minimal. She said
if a convicted felon was in possession of a gun on school
grounds it would be a Class A felony.
Number 694
REP. BUNDE asked Ms. Knuth to explain the parameters of
sentencing.
MS. KNUTH stated that generally there would be no jail time
imposed for this offense, but the maximum would be five
years in jail and a $10,000 fine.
Number 707
REP. BUNDE suggested that the measure is more of a
psychological deterrent; as with a misdemeanor there is no
jail time, and as a felony there is the potential of at
least two years in prison (not likely to be imposed).
Number 717
MS. KNUTH agreed and also said that there is the option of
probation and supervision. She said the classification
would imply that the offense is serious enough to warrant
keeping an eye on the offender for at least a year.
Number 724
REP. BUNDE asked if it would take major revisions of the
proposal to make the offense a Class C felony.
Number 733
MR. LUCKHAUPT said it would not be very difficult to make
the change.
Number 744
REP. BUNDE asked if the change could be made now or would it
require more time.
Number 748
MR. LUCKHAUPT said that he could be directed to amend AS
11.61.200.
Number 755
REP. BUNDE said that if he had the support of the committee
to amend that section, he would be willing to pass the bill
out of committee.
Number 762
REP. BRICE said that guns in school should be equal to the
offense of having brass knuckles outside of school. He
asked if there was a way to bring firearms up to a Class A
misdemeanor.
Number 786
REP. BUNDE maintained that if a change was to be made it
should be a felony.
Number 796
REP. BRICE referred to the scenario where a student had a
gun and the police were unable to respond in an appropriate
manner.
Number 802
REP. BUNDE replied that the instance was a privacy issue and
was not relevant.
REP. BUNDE said the practical application of a misdemeanor
would only involve a fine. He said he now felt that a
classification of a felony would be more appropriate.
Number 823
MS. KNUTH said that an adult would incur jail time for the
offense. She further stated that a juvenile would go
through an entirely different proceeding where the goal is
rehabilitation.
Number 838
CHAIR TOOHEY said that a five year old who goes to school
with his father's gun would not be guilty of a felony.
Number 846
REP. BUNDE indicated that there would be prosecutorial
discretion.
Number 857
REP. BRICE said he would like to see possession of deadly
weapon by a student on school property be a Class A
misdemeanor.
Number 872
REP. BUNDE said he felt it would be appropriate to hold the
bill and to give the issues further thought.
Number 887
REP. G. DAVIS indicated that if changes were made there
could be ramifications regarding the fiscal note.
Number 896
REP. BUNDE asked how the change would affect the fiscal
note.
Number 899
MS. KNUTH said the fiscal note would remain at zero.
Number 907
CHAIR TOOHEY stated that the bill would be held over until
the next committee meeting.
CHAIR TOOHEY brought HB 418 to the table.
HB 418 - EXTEND BOARD OF PAROLE
Number 938
REP. B. DAVIS indicated that an intern of hers would give a
brief overview of the bill.
Number 942
NANNETTE GAY, Intern, Rep. Bettye Davis, Prime Sponsor of HB
418, presented a brief overview of HB 418 on behalf of Rep.
Bettye Davis. She said HB 418 would extend the Board of
Parole for the customary four year period (to June 30,
1997). She said under current law the date is June 30,
1994. She said the expiration of the Parole Board will not
alter the state's responsibility to provide discretionary
and mandatory parole. She urged the support of HB 418.
REP. BUNDE moved to have HB 418 move out of committee with
individual recommendations.
Number 985
CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objections, declared that HB 418
was so moved.
Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR
TOOHEY ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:58 p.m.
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